Work Post

3:32am - I'm up late and my roomie is in bed so it's work time.

Earlier I started analysing the tools from Zelda 3 and 4. I named most of them and their uses. There were a lot less of them than I thought though!

The Sword and Shield I didn't mention since they're basic interaction items. Then there's a few spell medallions in Zelda 3, and a few items with very little use like the Magic Powder, that I didn't mention.


There were thirteen dungeons in Zelda 3, and eight in Zelda 4. Eight is a good number to aim for, I think, plus a final boss.

In Zelda 4 the 'key' tools are gotten from the dungeons this order: Roc's Feather (Jump), Power Bracelet (Lift), Pegasus Boots (Dash), Flippers (Swim), Hookshot (Grab/Pull), L-2 Power Bracelet (Lift++), Mirror Shield (Reflect), Magical Rod (Fire).

Link normally has the Sword, Shield, Bow and Bombs available to him in Zelda 4 almost from the start. The Ocarina is also available without a dungeon, but you have to have a few dungeons complete to get it and then you have to unlock songs. Bottles were added in the Switch remake of Zelda 4.

I think that's a pretty good model, but I want to vary things up between the generated games. That means coming up with key puzzles for each tool I come up with, and combinations of them. I'm not sure if I want to have all the tools available in every game, or just a subset of them, or if I want to have many tools with the same use but different story/appearance.

I liked the way I used a simple word to define the ability given to you by the items. That sort of thing should be able to describe more items that haven't been made yet, if I so choose.

I think I've got a good idea though. Earlier I said I couldn't "Just make a dungeon generator" because of the need to plan for seperate tools. But if I start with the assumption that the player only has one 'key' tool, the one that they get in the dungeon, then I only have to make 'locks' for each tool alone, as if the dungeon was the first dungeon, whatever tool was in it. Then I could expand the dungeon generator to use tool combinations later on, once I'd decided on all my tools.

So! What do I need to do for a prototype?

I need to make a dungeon generator, for one thing. A tool that will logically plan out and design a Zeldalike dungeon.

I need a player character, who can move around inside the dungeon and interact with things.

I need monsters. There were twelve different monster types in the first dungeon of Zelda 4...

There were thirty three different overworld monsters, fourty four different underworld monsters, as well as traps, bosses and mini bosses in Zelda 4.


I'll want to start things off simple, so I'll just make two or three enemy types to begin with, a mini boss and a boss.


I wonder if I should make potential rooms by hand and mix and match them with procgen or do the whole thing with procgen?

Well I suppose the best way to find out would be to do it all procgen and see how it comes out compared to hand-made rooms. After all, if I'm designing the procgen system to make the dungeon rooms then it'll probably make dungeon rooms like I would. I hope. ^.^;;

But yeah. I plan to use a 'room by room' system for the dungeon, where each room is a blocked off piece of content, but they're also connected to form lock and key puzzles. Then there's the Game Maker's Toolkit's famous Boss Keys series. They did a great analysis of the Zelda series' dungeons and I think I can use that to refine the formula and put it on track with the cyclic level generation of Unexplored.

So it sounds like the first thing I need to prototype is a dungeon room generator, and then a player character to test the content in that room, and monsters for the room generator to populate with, then something to tie the rooms together into a dungeon.

4:43am - I don't think I'll be doing any coding tonight but I can at least think about the structure of the dungeon.

Let's look at the types of rooms we'll have.

The Foyer Room starts the dungeon with a dramatic but safe room that sets the mood and tells the theme of the dungeon.

The Connecting/Hall Room is a basic room the player can traverse at any time, like an empty hallway.

The Combat Trap Room is a room where the doors seal on player entry and open again when all monsters in the room are defeated.

The Lock Room requires a key to get past.

The Tool Lock Room requires a key item to get past.

The Boss Key Room requires a boss key to get past.

Actually now that I think of it, if I make every room type connected to their exit types, that's a lot of potential room types. I should seperate the rooms from their exits.

So, there's the Foyer, the Hall, and the Combat Trap.

Then there's the Treasure Room, which has a reward on display for the player to pick up.

Then there's the Puzzle Room, which requires the player to solve a puzzle to proceed.

Then there's the Hint Room, which provides the player with a hint.

Then there's the Mini Boss Room, where the player fights a Mini Boss.

Then there's the Boss Room, where the player fights a Boss.


The treasure room may be taking on too much weight since it's a catch all for every kind of treasure. In Zelda games there's usually a map and compass to guide you through the dungeon as well as Keys, a Boss Key and the 'Key' Tool.

I like the idea of having the treasure always appear in a seperate treasure room, though, as opposed to directly falling from the ceiling in a Combat Trap or Hall room when you've defeated the monsters. That way the layout makes more sense, I think.

One thing I won't do is try to make a generator that makes level maps that look like things, which the Zelda games frequently did. Zelda 1 and 4 in particular had dungeon maps that looked like objects or creatures.

But yeah, I should be able to string together some rooms and key puzzles that make sense. I'll check my book again before I figure out what kinds of exits I should have. I mean, I know it'll have doors that take keys but there were a lot of other key/lock relationships they had and I want to read about them again. I'm too tired to do it now, so...

5:06am - I'm going to bed.

Work Post

4:00pm - So today I've got my copy of Procedural Generation in Game Design and I'm going to re-look-over the chapter on Cyclic Level Generation and especially the part on key puzzles. I want to refresh myself on their ideas and see how they could work in my project.

Locks might be Conditional, Dangerous, or Uncertain.

The first type of lock is a Conditional lock, where you can bypass the lock if you have the key.

The second type of lock is a Dangerous lock, where you can bypass the danger if you have the key, or risk the danger if you don't.

The third type of lock is an Uncertain lock, where you don't know about the lock, but you can find it if you have the key. That could be a secret door, or perhaps a password lock?


Locks are Permanent, Reversible, Temporary or Collapsing.

You could unlock a door and it stays that way, or stays unlocked until you lock it again, or it might open with the key and close on its own, or it might only allow one passage though. I'm not sure I'd do the last one in a Zeldalike; normally you can backtrack always. But, it might work if it was a collapsing lock leading to a tool 'key' for another lock or otherwise reverse traversal.


Locks might be Valves or Asymmetrical.

Locks that only allow travel in one direction are called valves. Locks that can only be opened from one direction but passed through from both are asymmetrical.


Locks can be Safe or Unsafe.

An safe lock is guaranteed solvable, while an unsafe lock can be stymied. Maybe you teleport to the wrong side and you're stuck? I probably won't have random teleports like Unexplored does, though.


Keys can be Single Purpose or Multipurpose.

A single purpose key is a regular key that opens a lock and that's it. Multipurpose keys open many locks, and/or have another use. Like the hookshot for example, you can grab things from far away or attack enemies, or use it to pass a tool lock.


Keys are Particular or Nonparticular.

Typically in a Zelda game, there are Nonparticular 'small' keys and a particular 'boss' key in dungeons. The small keys can open any normal locked door and the boss key can only open the final door, and only the boss key can open that door.


Keys might be Consumed or Persistant.

Small keys are normally consumed by the lock. This lets you choose which of a branching path you want to take, while locking you out of the others, until you find more keys on that path.


Keys might be fixed in place.

A lever is an example of a fixed key. It unlocks a door but doesn't move. They advise to make sure lever doors are always permenant so they don't become unsafe, and to make sure the player knows the status of the door



Those are all of the key/lock ideas that they shared in the book. Zelda games like to seal the player in a room with a combat encounter until they finish, so that might be one more type of lock. On the other hand, if it's unavoidable and reversible, is it still a lock?


So, let's see... I'll have Small Key locks, a Big Key lock, and 'Key' Tool locks. What else? One way doors, bomb doors, secret doors connected to hint rooms, puzzle locks

5:03pm - So now I've got some ideas for rooms and locks written down. Now, do I first make a room assembler or do I make a dungeon generator that says what rooms go where first, and then use that to inform my room assembly?

I want to make it so that some rooms have two or more disconnected spaces, so the player can see things they can't get to yet. Given that, I might want to determine the paths through the dungeon before determining the structure of the individual rooms.

Yeah that makes sense. Alright. But to do that I'll have to hit the book again and figure out how to implement the cyclic level generation along with my designs.

All that will have to wait until after groceries, though, and possibly for another day.